A year ago if asked I would have said that the Brazilian while talented, was not needed at the Camp Nou due to the exploits of Messi, Alexis and the introduction of Tello. Fast forward to the latter stages of this recently concluded season and to me it became apparent the reliance on Messi was detrimental to the progress of the club. Messi is a phenomenon and is clearly the most talented player of his generation, but even he is fallible to injuries and dips in form. The matches against AC Milan (1st leg), PSG (2nd leg) and Bayern at the Allianz Arena showed that there isn't much creativity or dynamism of Messi is off par or contained in a well honed marking system. The arrival of Neymar in theory and in hope for fans is that he has the same impact or close to it as Ronaldinho did in the early parts of the Rijkaard era. The ability to take on opponents, draw defenders onto himself therefore creating space for Messi or Pedro or runs from deep as Fabregas did so well at Arsenal and parts of last season. Neymar would add much needed creativity to an attack that is heavily focused on everything going through Messi, and in some extents it's understandable; his stats show his insatiable hunger for goals and assists. However, he needs help (I know how silly that sounds for a 4 time Ballon D'Or winner) and Neymar is in my opinion is as crucial for FCB this summer as signing a replacement for Puyol.
That's all I can write for now i will update soon on more transfer news and anything in football in general.
Bossman.
Ronaldinho was surrounded by an array of strikers- that is not the case here with Neymar where the only natural striker Barcelona has is Villa (and there is even a high chance that he may leave).In addition to this, his success was accentuated when Barcelona brought in players like Eto'o,Larsson,Deco and Giuly Also Neymar and Ronaldinho's situations are in no way shape or form similar. Ronnie had been playing in France and was a much stronger and more experienced player who was used to the European style of play. With the way Bayern played, I do not think that it would make sense to place the solution on the shoulders of a single player. Also the narrative you are using for Neymar is the same narrative that was used for Sanchez. Leaving the fate of the team in the hands of one or two players (especially an inexperienced one) is not the way to go forward.
ReplyDeleteThought i replied to this? oh well. Thanks for the comment and you make some good points especially about Ronaldinho's experience wit PSG. But what i meant in terms of impact was that Neymar can bring extra dynamism to the front line, other than the everything funneling through Messi. Villa will probably leave but there's talk of bringing in a No 9 in the vein of Larsson, someone who would accept a lesser but important role in some key games. Neymar is just one part of the puzzle in removing Messi dependence.
DeleteThe solution in my opinion to teams like Bayern and Milan (1st leg) is to move the ball much more quickly and have players running behind defenses. That was something that was missing in those matches last season.
The point you made about dynamism is the exact same thing that was said about Alexis Sanchez when he was signed so I fail to see your point. Also in addition to this, I still think that you are reaching with the Ronaldinho comparison. Ronaldinho was surrounded by natural strikers and he also tended to delegate the striking responsibilities to them. This gave him more freedom to roam the pitch and do damage from other areas.This is not close to what they have with Messi at the false 9. Also against Milan, the answer was simple- create more attacking outlets. Barcelona moved the ball against Milan in the first leg but the problem was that most of the action took place outside the pitch. The Milan players knew that all they had to do was disrupt Messi as none of the other players had the instinctual training to rush into the box especially when they did not have the ball. That was not the case when Villa was played in front of Messi in the second leg. In that game Messi had more opportunities cos there was another outlet- that is what you get when you delegate the striking responsibility to a natural. Barcelona needs to come to terms with the idea that the false 9 may not be the end all and be all in football and that other teams have started to catch on to how they play.
DeleteWhich is why you need to funnel more attacks outside of just Messi, that's why Neymar was signed to give Messi more space. You're assuming Neymar will strictly stay out wide. And yes Villa in the second leg was deployed to occupy the Milan CB's to create space for Messi to receive to ball and create havoc, which he did. As i said the plan is still to sign a No 9 but the creative responsibilities has to be distributed and not just on Messi (even though he's the best player in the world). The false 9 is just so that the CB's don't have a fixed target to mark, perfect example was the CL final vs Man Utd in 2011, and Spain used that in Euro 2012, so its still very useful what needs to change are the runs into space.
DeleteI never said that it was inept, I simply said that it had become a predictable part of Barca's attack. You have to agree that unlike Spain, Barcelona had no fall back option and this year, there were more cases of teams being able to successfully stifle the Barcelona attack. You also have to see the more teams have started to catch on to that tactic. That is what I meant when said it is not the be all and end all.The problem in this case is that while the false 9 requires the absence of a fixed target for the defense to lock onto, Barcelona's overdependence on Messi has created a fixed target- so teams now know that in order to get to Barcelona, you have to shut down Messi. Again you have not answered the point I made about Sanchez. You make all these claims about Neymar whilst conveniently forgetting the fact that Sanchez was brought in for the exact same reasons.Also I do not have to assume anything about Neymar staying out wide. Neymar is a glorified wide forward(let me clarify I am referring to his positioning not his talent) at best so where else would he be deployed if Messi starts? I am basing my predictions on what has actually happened with this current coach. Now if it was another coach then that would be a different matter (but even then there might not have been a need for Neymar in the first place).
DeleteIts funny how you also say that I am assuming things. Are you not assuming that Neymar would be allowed to roam freely? I already provided you with the example of Ronaldinho and how he was able to do what he did because of the other players on the team. Would Neymar have that much freedom especially when there is already an attacker who wants to have a free moving role? Once again I will say this, the false 9 is nothing short of a single tactic, it can work but eventually it will be countered. The mark of a good coach is to know what to do when it is countered. Investing in yet more wide forwards (Neymar is an addition not a replacement for the existing ones) and replacing but not adding to the strikers present is not one would call a move in a different direction.
ReplyDeleteThere's no point in signing Neymar if he's just allowed to hug the left flank. At the peak of their powers in 2010/2011 season Villa, Messi and Pedro all used to interchange, which is why they were extremely effective that season. When Villa got injured and Pedro's form dipped, Messi carried the sole goal scoring responsibility. As for Alexis, his first season was decent but hampered by injuries, and in that season especially against Madrid in the 1-3 win in the Bernabeu, Messi played behind him. So yes while Neymar may start out wide he will and should be given access to roam centrally.The beauty of the false 9 in my opinion is that any one of the front three can occupy that central role. And you're assuming that no striker will be brought in next season.
ReplyDeleteWow its like you deliberately ignore certain points while repeating the same thing over and over again. You do realize that the switch against Madrid happened during the Guardiola era. I am talking specifically about the Vilanova era (where little has been done in terms of innovation and adaptability). Guardiola would not have gone in with that exact same formation in the Milan game (this was a guy who would load the midfield with 2 holding players if the need arose). You talk about the false 9 in theoretical terms and I am using real life examples. This current incarnation of the false 9 is meant for one player and one player only. That is what has been happening so far. You say that there was no point in signing Neymar if he was supposed to just hug the left flank- then why the hell was Villa played on the left flank in most of the games this year. That was not close to being his primary role (unlike Neymar). Also pinning all that hope on just one player is not the sensible thing to do. Especially for a player in Neymar's position. It is detrimental to the team and the player (as many would expect him to hit the ground running{an unfair expectation}). You asked me why I am assuming that no strikers would be brought in- so I am going to ask you if you have been watching the team at all this year. If someone like Villa could be wasted away then why should the possibility of him being sold and not replaced be entertained. Some fans have already deluded themselves with their so called fantasy line ups- Neymar-Messi-Pedro. Oh and one other thing, the whole interchanging thing started with Rijkaard and it was more effective because at least 2 of the front 3 were comfortable in the box. People can pretend all they want but the 2008/9 set did exist and there was a reason why it was effective.
ReplyDeleteYou keep extolling the virtues of the false 9 in what some would call a fervently religious manner but the evidence is there for all to see. It can be beaten. The question is whether Barcelona are smart enough to prepare for the occasions where it does not work. It is just about getting a striker. It is also about finding a way to integrate him into their game (both sides have to meet in the middle). That would involve a decent amount of playing time and an alternation of tactics. So far it does not look like that would be the case especially when you consider how Villa had been treated. And another thing- one of the reasons why the false 9 was so effective was because of the surprise factor it brought- now other teams are expecting it and the number of teams which have been successful in countering it is starting to increase. With this current team they know who to target. The onus would be on Barcelona to come up with something new. It is not just about one or two players- it is about the team. You cite ronaldinho whilst forgetting the fact that the responsibility was more spread out than it is now.
ReplyDeletedudes. you're both wrong. it's completely irrelevant who the forward is. they lost 7-0 on aggregate to bayern. signing a CB or two has to be the priority. defense wins the championships.
ReplyDeleteGetting a CB is beside the point. The article was talking about the need for getting Neymar and that is what the both of them were arguing about. However I also think that the author does not really understand what he is saying. Of course now that we are hearing things about 3rd party investors asking for more money, only time would tell if it was worth it.
DeleteThere is a reason why it was 7-0 and not 7-2 or 7-4 and that had something to do with the attack.
Deletevery nice arguments so far..
ReplyDeleteso, is neymar signing necessary? of course! neymar is much more than a left winger. barca needed a player with high improvisation skills to bring back the magic that made them the best team in the world. thats what ronaldinho brought to the team in the Rijkaard era. thats what messi brought to the team under Guardiola... hopefully thats what neymar will bring to vilanova. its true that this year barca looked very static and out of ammunition in the CL late stages. it seams like when messi has a bad game, barca collapse. i never thought that messi was carrying this team on his shoulders as there is so much talent on this team. however the talent is aging and the teams needs to find replacement. neymar is the excellent candidate to bring speed, trickery, enthusiasm, but more importantly goals! Villa is an excellent striker and i think he should stay despite not having performed to the top of his ability this year. i dont understand what sanchez is doing at barca, clearly a flop signing!!! villa and sanchez both failed to represent a leathal threat to opposing teams this year partly because the false 9 approach was working so well that they didnt even have to use a real number 9. that really hurt the team. messi was being overused and there was no one else to take charge. if vilanova had to do something to revamp the team, he had to bring in a new spark in attack. and thats exactly what neymar is.... in my opinion this will allow villanova to rethink his formation in a way to get more out of his world class squad.